Would someone help me to confirm whether this is or isn't my family

Of course, that's standard practice, but we need something to go on in order to disprove it too - or at least, so we know if we're disproving it.

Maybe that could have been made clearer from the start. Our searching might then have been better focussed.....

Frederick wasn't proving easy to find so I looked for other members of the family instead - also standard practice when searching in censuses.

 

I have been trying to identify a Frederick Harris that might fit the bill. I had hoped that the one that died Islington in 1856 might be the one as his address before his demise [Brooksby St, Barnsbury] is about 15 minute walk from the address that Ann Harris lives in the 1861 census [Clairmont Row Islington] Unfortunately I think I found him living in Middle Aston, Oxfordshire in 1851 where he is recorded as a Law Stationer, the same occupation that is recorded on the death certificate. I think he might be the same one that lived in st Ebbs in 1841 too. I found 4 entries for Frederick Harris in the 1841 three in Oxfordshire and 1 in Clerkenwell that states he and the family were born in another county I suspect that they are the same 4 in the 1851 so think I'm back to square one on that now.

 

Trying to find inspiration, I have just had another look at the 1851 census previously linked to, and now again here 1851 Does anyone have a view on what Frederick Adams occupation might be please.

 

Interesting. So he may not have lived there, just perhaps had been there at that particular time! Curiouser and curiouser!

 

This is what a lot of my family history has been like, history and mystery. I was trained as a historian but I really enjoy trying to solve the family mysteries. Very often the evidence doesn't quite make sense or fit the expected facts. My own birth is a good example. My parents changed their surname after they married and before I was born. That makes it very difficult for anyone to work out who I am or even that I exist. In the previous generation, my grandfather is recorded in all official records as living with his wife - my grandmother - until he died. That came as a bit of a surprise to his second family, who knew nothing about his first family. The existence of his second family was likewise a surprise to those of us in his first family. There are many more examples where the records and the truth are not aligned, but very often the answers are out there, waiting to be found.

 

You are right that it may not be possible to identify who "Frederick Adams" really was. While it is likely his first name really was Frederick we can't be certain that it was, and while it is not unreasonable, based on the 1861 entry, to assume his surname might have been Harris, again we can't be certain that it was.

With my great grandfather's wife (see #11), I think I have probably identified the man she was living with in 1911, as he seems to be the same man she is living with in 1921, and he seems to be using his real name then (it all checks out with births, baptisms and earlier censuses). This indicates that both his surname and first name had been changed in 1911.

With my great great grandfather (#7) it was only his surname that was changed in the 1861 census. However, what has confused many people with this 1861 entry is that later censuses (1871 and 1881) show what appears to be the exact same couple - same forenames, same surname, same birth places, same location, his age very similar etc. Only by having checking this out very carefully, looking at birth registrations and so on, can I say with certainty that the couple with the same names in 1871 and 1881 are not the same people as in 1861, and the reason they don't show up in 1861 as a couple is because they didn't marry until 1862.

This is why I felt we really needed more information on Berry's family to be sure if we really were disproving a theory or not.

 

Yes, I appreciate that and totally get why we weren't given more information, but hopefully you can likewise see where I was coming from. It's difficult to prove or disprove anything with any certainty without knowing all the relevant facts - which is why, in my example, people have reached the wrong conclusions.

 

I guess it depends what you mean by looking for information to support their hypothesis. My guess is that mostly they didn’t have one. The 1871 and 1881 census entries more likely popped us as hints offering a person with same name, same date and place of birth, in the same location, with a wife of the same name and birthplace, and they jumped to the obvious, albeit wrong, conclusion.

I guess also that, with experience, we learn not to take anything when researching at face value and to dig deeper before starting to draw any conclusion.

 

Yes, and that does help in establishing that Frederick Adams as he is detailed in the 1851 census doesn't exist. One assumes that he represents a real person (that is, there really was a man in the household in 1851) but whether or not there is any truth in his details is unclear, at least to me. We're assuming his surname has been changed, but was his forename Frederick, was he born in Oxfordshire and how correct is his age?

 

Yes, a good chance, but as I said previously, no certainty (#30). I guess with the lengths some members of my family went to in order to cover up their "indiscretions", I no longer take anything for granted.

 

Hello Berry.

I read about your search in the latest newsletter and what jumped out at me is West of East Farndon, Northants, as I have Charlotte Ann West in my tree, a relative by marriage. Born 9th May 1868 (according to the 1939 register), with the GRO ref showing the birth registered in the Market Harborough district.

She's not the generation you're looking for, but I wonder if you are related to this family?

Father Thomas West born 15 Feb 1836 in East Farndon, married to Mary Ann White, born 1840 Market Harborough (not sure if that's the place of birth or the registry office). They married in 1860 Market Harborough (again, place or registration?) and in the 1861 census were in East Farndon. There is a death of Mary Ann West in Leicester aged 50 but I haven't verified whether this is the correct person. However in the 1891 census, Thomas, widower, farmer, was in Leicester, with three daughters dressmakers and a son overlooker/hosiery. There is a Thomas West death in Barrow on Soar, Leics, in 1915 which could be him.

Thomas West was the son of William West born 1800 and Charlotte Smith born 1802, both born and lived in East Farndon.

Wonder if we have a connection?

I have put all these Wests on My Ancestors on the main site.