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Retreats

Discussion in 'Roman Catholic ancestors' started by CarolB08, May 29, 2018.

  1. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    I am tearing my hair out looking for my Grandmother Annie Tracey formerly Lindsells birth or baptism, I have her marriage certificate to my Grandfather in Lexden Register office in 1906, her entry in the 1911 census which should tell me where she was born, except I can not make it out and her death certificate in 1931.
    Now her death is noted as taking place in "The Retreat" Billericay, Essex, could this have been a Catholic retreat for Catholics who wanted to meditate their faith or something else?
    I am working on the assumption that she was Catholic as my Mother was baptised in the |Brentwood Catholic cathedral and it would explain why they married in a Register office not my Grandfathers local church.
    Plus Annie such a common name and often a pet name for something else :confused:I need another brain to give me some guidance on where to look next. :(
     
  2. Heather

    Heather LostCousins Member

    Hi Carol, there is a detached house on Oak Road, Billericay, Essex named The Retreat, could she have been living there when she died?
     
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  3. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Morning Heather, that is interesting. To be honest I have no idea it just says The Retreat on her death certificate, but now you have given me something else to look into :) so thankyou .
     
  4. Rhian

    Rhian LostCousins Member

    You might get more information from the electoral registers for the 1920's.

    As you was married and died in Essex it might be an idea to find her in Essex in earlier census entries, there are not many with the right age from her death certificate, the is one in 1891 living in Charlton Next Woolwich with a Scottish mother and two sisters, the transcription just gives England as birth place, the image is obviously Woolwich. The one in 1901 was born in Greys and lived then in Orsett, both in Essex. Looking at the 1911, with a nice smudge, what do you think of Lundon, as a dialect spelling of London as the birthplace? This might fit with Woolwich.

    Another possibility is to wait a couple of years for the 1921 census :/
     
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  5. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Star

    I did find something suggesting that The Retreat was part of what is now St Andrew's Hospital, Billericay. The hospital was developed from what was originally the workhouse but I think by 1931 it would have been a council funded hospital. I found bits about the history of the hospital by googling but didn't find any specific mention of The Retreat. Maybe Essex Record Office could advise further?
     
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  6. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Pauline you are amazing, that is a really good thought, I am off to the Essex record office on Friday I will ask them and see if they have any information on it, although I did search their holdings looking for something on it. They have so much on buildings called the retreat but none seemed to match.
    I am curious what she was doing their when they lived in Brentwood at the time?
     
  7. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Star

    I'm just wondering if the first letter could be a capital Q, as I have sometimes come across a Q looking very much like a figure 2. I gather there is a parish in Essex called Quendon, so could this be what was meant?
     
  8. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    I did think of that village, but there is not a Catholic there and she is not in the Church baptism register that is there.
     
  9. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Hi Rhian I thought I had answered this I certainly typed it out but obviously did not hit post :rolleyes: so; I did think of London as a place but my Grandfather was an educated man and would have known how to spell London. As Pauline said I thought of Quendon as a place but they do not have a Catholic Church, there may be one close by but I do not know where.
    I have looked at the 1901 census and found a Annie Lindsell in Orsett living as a servant aged 15 which fits but as she was not with her family I do not know if this could be the right Annie.
    It may come down to the 1921 census to answer my questions :rolleyes:
     
  10. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Star

    What was Annie’s father’s name on her marriage certificate? There is a William Lin(d)sell in Quendon in the 1881 census (born Rickling) and in Rickling (born Quendon) in 1891, and in 1891 he appears to have a daughter Anne born Rickling, though the age is a bit out for your Annie.

    William is shown in 1891 as married to a Margaret. Mother in law Susan Rickett is also with them, but I haven’t found a marriage of William Lindsell (spelt variously) to a Margaret - Rickett or otherwise.

    So thinking outside the box, could it be that William and Margaret were not married, and Annie was the Annie Rickett born 1883 in the Saffron Walden district?

    The son William Bertie in the 1891 census appears to have been registered in 1885 as William Bertie Lindsell Rickett.

    I could, of course, be barking up the wrong tree, but if Annie’s father was William, might it merit further investigation?
     
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  11. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Pauline you are a flipping genius :D Annies' Father was indeed William Lindsell :D of course there may be other Williams out there but what you have come up with fits the facts. I am wondering if Margaret and William may have married in Ireland as I remember my Mum saying she was a quarter Irish at some point when I was younger :). On her marriage certificate Annie states her Father is deceased so a death entry will also be on my list of things to find.
    My brain is scrambled tonight but I shall be investigating tomorrow ;)
    Many thanks for your detective work on my behalf.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2018
  12. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Star

    Don't put too much weight on Annie's father being given as deceased on the marriage certificate. There are many reasons why a father may be shown as deceased when he isn't - for example, if Annie and her father were no longer in touch she might have assumed (or been told) he was dead.

    As I said, I may be completely wrong with my suggestion, and since you will have much more information on the family than I do, you are better placed to investigate further. However, by the 1880s, whilst it was relatively common for people not to be baptised at their parish church - or even at all - it was less common for births not to be registered. If a birth cannot be found in the GRO indexes, despite broadening the date range and location, two of the most likely explanations are (1) the person wasn't born in England & Wales, or (2) their birth was not registered with the expected surname.

    If William and Margaret do turn out to be Annie's parents, is it possible they didn't marry because one was Catholic and the other wasn't?
     
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  13. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    All very good points Pauline and thank you for your input and insight, I think the Catholic and Church of England point is why My Grandfather and Annie married in a Register Office, his family were most definitely Church of England. I have lots to think on and look in to and I am most grateful to you, Rhian and Heather for all your assistance.
     
  14. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Could it be Laindon?
     
  15. Rhian

    Rhian LostCousins Member

    I had initially looked at the first letter as Q but did not make the connection to Quendon which is why I ended up suggesting London, the fact that your grandfather would have spelt London correctly is not really a point as the census pages are the enumerators transcriptions and some enumerators made lots of mistakes working by candlelight at the end of a busy day. Laindon does seem a good possibility, being now in Basildon but near Brentwood and Quendon could be in the mix even with no declared catholics. I would look myself for you but I am a bit busy getting the roof put back on after the storms yesterday.
     
  16. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Star

    In the earlier censuses, yes, but with the 1911 census we get to see the original schedules completed by the householder not the enumerators' transcriptions.

    I'm still going with the first letter being a capital Q - the top loop on a capital L tends to go anti-clockwise and on an old-style capital Q it goes clockwise. Here are some examples from the 1901 census written in the same hand & on the same page, showing Quendon & London.

    1901.jpg 1901b.jpg
     
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  17. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Looking at the smudges on the 1911 schedule I wonder whether the person who filled it in was left-handed?
     
  18. Tim

    Tim Moderator Staff Member

    It's definitely a Q, as you can see from this set of capital letters.
    upload_2018-6-1_14-1-24.png
     
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  19. Tim

    Tim Moderator Staff Member

    And there are catholic churches around Quendon.
    upload_2018-6-1_14-5-37.png
     
  20. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    St Theresa's was only built in 2002 - and the other churches shown in the map above are all Church of England. But there is a Catholic church in Saffron Walden (Our Lady of Compassion), only 6 miles (2 hours walk) away and whilst I don't know how long it has been there, it's a listed building, which suggests it has been there a while.
     
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