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Coggeshall family connundrum

Discussion in 'Essex' started by CarolB08, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Evening all, I wonder if anyone could give me some advice please ? I am going crazy looking for a birth registration and death registration for Caroline Burton born 1850 and must have died before 1856 as another daughter also named Caroline was born and baptised then.
    I have found Caroline 1850's baptism in the Coggeshall St Peter Ad Vincula parish registers D/P 36/1/11 image 44 , page 80 -Caroline daughter of James and Maria Burton. Her baptism took place 8th September 1850,
    However I am unable to find a birth or death registration for her I have tried searching for Caroline Burton in Witham, and with out a place of birth entered with no luck. I tried just searching for Burton in the same areas also with no luck. I can not find a burial for her either so I simply can not rule her in or out of the family.
    Also I am searching for her Brother James I have his birth certificate and he was born 5th July 1850 to James and Maria Burton formerly Potter , however I can not find his baptism. The family have always used this church and always lived in Coggeshall.
    I noted that James is listed as James in the birth registers but the actual certificate just says boy and does not have a name added after registration as I have found in other certificates I have ordered.
    It has crossed my mind that the vicar might have made a mistake in the baptism register as the baptism of Caroline and the birth of James are very close or maybe they were twins and one was not expected to live.
    I am pulling my hair out over this one, a fresh pair of eyes and a keen brain are needed.
    Many thanks in advance .
    Carol
     
  2. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    A certificate is a certified copy of the register entry - they cannot be different unless the register was changed after the certificate was issued.
     
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  3. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Thank you Peter.
     
  4. Heather

    Heather LostCousins Member

    CarolBO8, Do you have the details of James and Maria's marriage?
     
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  5. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I think it would be helpful if Carol restated the problem giving in chronological order the information that she has, and precisely where it came from.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Okay here goes James Burton born 6th December 1811, Great Coggeshall, Essex information found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/9 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    He married Maria Potter (born circa 1812 in Feering, Essex,) on 11th August 1833 in St Peter ad Vincula parish church, Coggeshall,Essex, information found in the Coggeshall marriage register D/P 36/1/15 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    The first of their children James Burton is born 6 September 1833 and baptised 3 November 1833 in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/10 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. He died August 1834 and is buried in Coggeshall, information found in the Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/13 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    Next Rebecca Burton born 1834 baptised 9 November 1834 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/10 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. She died February 1836 and was buried in Coggeshall on 19 February 1836 found in the Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/13 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    Next Maria Burton born 1835 and baptised 1 November 1835 she marries Joseph Brown in 1852 .

    Next Robert Burton born 1837 and baptised 6 August 1837 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/10 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. He marries Elizabeth Newman in 1860 and later Alice Hamm formerly Anderton in 1895.

    Next Alfred Burton born 18 June 1838 baptised 5 August 1838 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/10 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. He marries three times Harriet Ann Burton formerly Clark in 1863, Harriet Amos in 1868 and finally Alice Neville formerly Wood in 1872 all in Coggeshall.

    Next Eliza Burton born 1839 and baptised 3 November 1839 in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/10 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site she died 1841 and was buried 19 April 1841 and buried in Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/13 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    Next Hannah Burton born 2 April 1841 and baptised 2 May 1841 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/10 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. She died 19 August 1863 and was buried 23 August 1863 at Coggeshall found in the Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/13 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    Next Mary Ann Burton born 1842 and baptised 12 Jnue 1842 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. She marries William Juniper in 1865.

    Next James Burton born 9 June 1843 and baptised 10 September 1843 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. He died 24 February 1845 aged 20 months. No burial yet for him but I have both birth and death certificates.

    Next Eliza Burton born 3 June 1844 and baptised 22 September 1844 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. She marries James Pennock 1864 in the Independant Meeting House, in the Witham district I have both her birth and marriage certificates she died in 1932 and was buried in Hatfield Peverel , found in the Hatfield Peverel burial register D/P 42/1/16 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    Next William Burton born 1845 and baptised 19 October 1845 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. He marries Mary Ann Claydon in 1867.

    Next Henry Burton born 1847 and baptised 14 February 1847 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site, he died 1 May 1929 and was buried 6 May 1929 found in the Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/20 noted at the Essex Record office in 2007. Henry marries Sarah Nicholls in 1852.

    Next Arthur Burton born 1849 and baptised 22 April 1849 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site. He married Harriet ? found on the 1881 census.

    Next Caroline Burton born 1850 baptised 8 September 1850 Found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site this is the one whose birth certificate I can not find and who must have died before 1856 due to her sister Caroline being born, I have searched for a burial and a death certificate and can find neither.

    Next James Burton born 5 July 1850 in Robins Bridge Road, Coggeshall, I can not find a baptism for him but I do have his birth certificate and marriage certificate to Hannah Willsher in 1870.

    Next John Burton born 1851 and baptised 23 November 1851 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site, he died 1858 and was buried 1 December 1858 found in the Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/13 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.

    And lastly Caroline Burton born 1856 and baptised 27 April 1856 found in the Coggeshall baptism register D/P 36/1/11 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site, she died in 1869 and was buried 14 December 1869 aged 13 years found in the Coggeshall burial register D/P 36/1/14 on the essexcc.gov.uk/Seax web site.
    It is James 1850 whose baptism I can not find although I do have his birth certificate and Caroline 1850 whose birth and death certificate I can not find. I know their biths are very close together and would love to locate Carolines birth certificate to be able to say yes this is the right James and Maria Burton .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2016
  7. Bob Spiers

    Bob Spiers LostCousins Superstar

    Very concise research crossing the 't's and dotting the 'i's, but as all the information is via the Essex (Seax) site, only those with a subscription can follow through. However I have no doubt Carol's research is so thorough it can be taken as read via that source at least.

    Here is what I could find external of the Seax site if of help: (Bold figures indicate variances)

    FMP/FAMILY SEARCH & ANCESTRY research (tied to Essex I may say) came up with: (1) Caroline Emily Burton death registration in the 2nd quarter of 1955 in Epping (4A/33) and a (2) Caroline Barton birth registration for the 4th quarter of 1850 in Colchester (12/62). For (3) James Burton a birth registration for the 3rd quarter in 1850 Witham (12/326/11) -no parents shown. For (4) James Burton a death registration in Coggeshall (St Peter AV) 1st December 1917 showing birth year 1850, age 67: source (FMP : (NBI/Essex SforFH). (Also shown in 1911 Census in Coggeshall aged 59)

    The 1851 Census for James(1813) & Maria (1813) Burton (Robins Bridge Road, Great Coggeshall, Witham) lists children: Maria, Robert, Alfred, Hannah, Mary Ann, Eliza, William, Henry, Arthur & James (shown as age 0).

    The 1861 Census for James & Maria Burton-same address: Alfred, Harriet(?),Mary Ann,Eliza, William, Henry, Arthur, James (aged 10) & Caroline aged 5 (so clearly the second Caroline)
     
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  8. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Thankyou for the compliment Bob :) I am not sure about Caroline Emily, I can not think of any reason why if she was the Caroline in question she would be registered in Epping but she is certainly one to keep in mind . Caroline Barton is a possiblility although again I am not sure why she would be registered in Colchester.
    James born 1850, his birth certificate I already have but his death year is a welcome addititon to my research.
     
  9. Bob Spiers

    Bob Spiers LostCousins Superstar

    Glad to have provided some help Carol. I think the absence of Caroline (1850) in the 1851 Census whilst James is shown is relevant as is the second Caroline with James in the 1861. I assume for the 1850 Caroline there is no doubt she was the child of James & Maria? If you are sure, perhaps as you mentioned, a twin of James and baptised because she was frail and perhaps believed to be dying; but that does not explain the absence of a baptism for James 1850 of course.

    I am however confused about a second James 1851 who died 1858. If of the same family why name a further son James if the first was still living? I find that puzzling but may be missing something.

    I will leave it there and perhaps someone else can step in and help.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
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  10. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Well spotted Bob, I am afraid that is my mistake and one that I had not spotted when I typed that lot out :( it should read JOHN BURTON not James Burton.
     
  11. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Superstar

    I'd been wondering if the 1851 James was a typo. I'm also thinking that it's quite possible the 1850 baptism of Caroline is a mistake in the original register. I don't have access to images at SEAX but was wondering if it is possible to tell from the register if an error might have occurred.

    I have a similar example with a male birth registration and matching female baptism, and it appears that the clerk has mixed up the forenames of two children baptised on the same day. I have been able to pretty much confirm this from the GRO indexes and a family bible.

    I have another example with a child born before general registration who was apparently not baptised. However browsing through the register of the most likely church, I found the baptism of a child with the right forenames, his parents also having the right forenames, occupation and residence - but the surname was wrong. However, it appears that the clerk had written in the surname of the entry above by mistake.

    So mistakes in registers are far from unknown, and my first inclination would be to follow this up.
     
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  12. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I've edited the original post to make it easier to follow.
     
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  13. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Okay folks with your help I think I may have this cracked :) it was Paulines post that got me thinking so I took a fresh look at the baptism page it shows top of the page Caroline Burton and underneath her James Aust , Pauline got me thinking maybe the first names were transposed so I went hunting for a Caroline Aust 1850 on FreeBMD and take a look at what I found :) only one Caroline Aust born in the Witham district in September 1850. So then I went looking for a James Aust for the same time frame and found nothing . So now I am thinking that Caroline Burton 1850 did not exist and that the baptism entry should read James Burton :) all of which would explain why I can not find a birth for Caroline but could find a baptism and why I could find a birth for James but could not find a baptism . I would welcome your thoughts on this theory . Caroline Aust.JPG Coggeshall baptism D.P 36.1.11.JPG
     
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  14. Heather

    Heather LostCousins Member

    Hi CarolBo8, since I asked you if you had James and Maria's marriage, I have been following the comments with interest and I think with Pauline's post and your further research I think you have probably solved the mystery, well done to everyone concerned, isn't it nice when brick walls are reduced to rubble? ;)
     
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  15. CarolB08

    CarolB08 LostCousins Member

    Heather I am so happy to have got to the bottom of this mystery, I have since run it past another Burton researcher and she also agrees so thats it problem solved :) many thanks to everyone who helped me out with this I could not have done it without you all.
     
  16. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Well done, everyone! This is a reminder that the baptism register wasn't filled in as the children were christened (not with all that water splashing around), but completed later from memory, or from notes. That's why you'll sometimes see gaps in the entries (usually where the mother's name should be), and why mistakes were sometimes made.
     
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  17. Britjan

    Britjan LostCousins Star

    Glad this was all solved otherwise I might have thrown in the possible red herring of the family using another church in the Witham area.
     
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