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1921 census

Discussion in 'Latest news' started by Derek Baker, Jan 16, 2014.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Derek Baker

    Derek Baker LostCousins Star

    This has just been posted on the Somerset Family History Yahoo Group site has anyone signed it?

    "The 1921 census is not due until 2022, but if we can get 100,000 signatures the government will consider early release. The 1931 census results were destroyed in a fire and there was no census in 1941, so this is the last for a long time. "

    The link is Petitions

    Does anyone know it this is a real possibility?
    Not many people have signed it yet.
    Derek
     
    Derek Baker, Jan 16, 2014
    #1
    • Great question Great question x 1
  2. Tim

    Tim Megastar and Moderator Staff Member

    I never know if e-petitions actually work.

    Also people are living longer, from the 2011 census, there were 407,388 males and 847,300 females aged 85 and over.
    So in 2022, there will be a lot of people still alive who will appear on the 1921 census.

    There is also an interesting article here, which says there were 12,320 aged 100+ in 2012.
     
    Tim, Jan 16, 2014
    #2
  3. emjay

    emjay LostCousins Member

    I don't understand the problem with being sensitive about Census information in the public domain earlier than 100 years. The older people get, the less they seem to be shocked by, or care about revelations. It seems to me that there is a significant amount of very personal information on BMD certificates, and they are available to
    all.
     
    emjay, Jan 16, 2014
    #3
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Tim

    Tim Megastar and Moderator Staff Member

    Its a fair point.
     
    Tim, Jan 16, 2014
    #4
  5. Britjan

    Britjan LostCousins Star

    Not to mention what you can Google and find.
    I traced a school friend from parish council notes on line.
     
    Britjan, Jan 16, 2014
    #5
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Alexander Bisset

    Alexander Bisset Administrator Staff Member


    The wording of the petition is exceptionally poor and the logic unrelated to the point at hand. ie: the lack of two future census beyond 1921 has absolutely zero bearing on whether this one should be released early. In fact by the exceptionally poor wording used he is expressing concern about a long gap of time. Releasing this census early would make that problem worse. eg: releasing in 2014 would mean no further census data until 2052, a wait of 38 years rather than 30. That said I signed it for all the good it would do. In any case it is somewhat irrelevant to me as 95%+ of my ancestors are from NE Scotland and so it would need a petition to the Scottish Parliament to affect the 1921 Scottish Census.
     
    Alexander Bisset, Jan 17, 2014
    #6
  7. emjay

    emjay LostCousins Member

    Perhaps a signed petition at the WDYTYA 2014 would fare better than an online petition? On second thoughts, it's not really about genealogy, but genealogy is one of a number of points to consider in the retention of the 2021 Census.
     
    emjay, Jan 17, 2014
    #7
  8. Alexander Bisset

    Alexander Bisset Administrator Staff Member

    This is about the release of the old 1921 census in 2022 or now rather than whether any future census has a future.
     
    Alexander Bisset, Jan 17, 2014
    #8
  9. emjay

    emjay LostCousins Member

    Oops:rolleyes: I'd better have a look at it.
     
    emjay, Jan 17, 2014
    #9
  10. Britjan

    Britjan LostCousins Star

    The very poorly worded petition is getting a bit of a Facebook presence at least as I received a link from a "lost cousin". The point that I think that is being missed is the issue of the preservation ( and hopefully digitisation) of other records which might help "us" work our way through what happened to our families post 1911, then post 1921. There will be a huge gap when other sources of information will become more important.
    I am more familiar with the English side of this issue and hope others can chime in to make this relevant in a "British" sense.
     
    Britjan, Jan 18, 2014
    #10
  11. Alexander Bisset

    Alexander Bisset Administrator Staff Member

    There is of course the 1939 national identity card "census" which will help.
     
    Alexander Bisset, Jan 18, 2014
    #11
  12. Britjan

    Britjan LostCousins Star

    Thanks Alex, are there any plans to ever digitise and release this? Currently I see that it will cost £42.00 for a single search so I will content myself with electoral registers for now which are so useful for London searches.
     
    Britjan, Jan 18, 2014
    #12
  13. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think the petition will do any good, and in any case I don't think the census should be released early.

    What right do we - or the government - have to steamroller over the rights of the hundreds of thousands of living people who were recorded on that census, and whose parents were promised that their information would be kept confidential for 100 years?

    The situation with the 1911 Census was different - no change in the law was required because there was no 100-year rule until the passing of the Census Act 1920, although the census form did assure householders that the information provided would be regarded as strictly confidential.

    When I told my wife about the petition she said it was a case of a few family historians being selfish, and whilst I wouldn't have used those words myself, it's hard to disagree with that assessment.

    Surely we should be focusing on the important issues - making sure that the census continues, and getting the law changed so that we can access the historic England & Wales BMD registers online?
     
    peter, Jan 18, 2014
    #13
    • Agree Agree x 8
  14. emjay

    emjay LostCousins Member

    Having now read the 'petition', I have to agree with the points you and others have made regarding the wording/logic used.
     
    emjay, Jan 19, 2014
    #14
  15. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    In 2010, when it was first suggested that the census might be discontinued, I wrote to the Minister concerned suggesting that additional information should be collected on BMD certificates. I got a very polite reply from the Director General of the Office of National Statistics in which he said that he had forwarded my suggestion to the General Register Office.

    Of course, we now know that expecting the GRO to do anything proactive is a forlorn hope.....
     
    peter, Jan 21, 2014
    #15
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Britjan

    Britjan LostCousins Star

    I have just taken my first proper look at the on line version of the 1921 Canadian census and I must say it was a bit disconcerting to see my future mother in law aged 4 months on it. Sadly no member of her family is still around although she was the youngest and I will have to ask the extended family if they know of any distant relatives or friends over 90 still living. It would be interesting to hear a first hand account of what it feels like to be "exposed" on line. Statistics Canada estimated last year that there were about 249, 000 aged 90+ , 70% of whom are female. In my home province of Ontario there are about 103, 000 aged 90+ (with 68% female) so it shouldn't be too difficult to find some willing to share their reaction.
     
    Britjan, Jan 24, 2014
    #16
  17. chrispaton

    chrispaton Speaker

    The 1931 census for Scotland is very much still in existence - only England and Wales have an issue there. There is no 1931 census for Northern Ireland - the 1926 for the north no longer exists, the next NI census was 1937, which still exists (as far as I'm aware!).

    The 1939 National Identity Register costs £42 per household in England and Wales - but £15 per individual in Scotland, available via GRO Scotland. For Northern Ireland it costs nothing to do a look-up - data is accessible via a free Freedom of Information enquiry to PRONI.
     
    chrispaton, Mar 12, 2014
    #17
    • Good tip Good tip x 1
  18. Else C

    Else C Speaker

    I've been at TNA meeting which has announced plans to digitise and make available the 1939 register and the data protection issues involved. I think they are waiting an opinion from Data Comissioner but it sounded promising
     
    Else C, Mar 13, 2014
    #18
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Liberty

    Liberty LostCousins Megastar

    Once I realised there are no census records for 1931 and 1941 I thought about the implications of such a big gap. This means that my mother makes her first ever appearance on a (surviving) census as a married woman with a young son. How glad I am that I don't have to struggle with a 30-year census gap in the 19th century!
     
    Liberty, Mar 13, 2014
    #19
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. chrispaton

    chrispaton Speaker

    chrispaton, Mar 13, 2014
    #20
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