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Using DNA to identify a parent

Discussion in 'DNA Questions and Answers' started by Liberty, May 19, 2014.

  1. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    You're right, his father may not have been called Robert - but is there another Robert after whom he may have been named? If not, then it's a good working hypothesis to assume that his natural father was called Robert.

    It's possible the reason why his date of birth coincides with his mother's date of death is because - when asked - he didn't know when he was born. Suppose the follow-up question was "How old were you when your mother died?". If he then said 16 then I can certainly imagine some official writing down his birthdate as 11th December 1855 - it's rather like what we do with Shakespeare.

    According to the Workhouses website: Mossbank Industrial Schools, Hogganfield... was intended to "lay hold of and educate neglected and destitute children who, having no parents, or worse whose parents living themselves in vice and profligacy, leave their offspring to grow up in ignorance or become vagrants and criminals." It taught 400 boys trades and 200 girls domestic duties.

    I believe that parents contributed to the cost of keeping their children - that might explain why he left following his mother's death.
     
  2. Liberty

    Liberty LostCousins Megastar

    Yes, my brother looked into the school
    He wrote to me "Uncontrollable’ children could also be volunteered by their parents; in these circumstances parents could be asked to make a financial contribution (generally, they weren’t, it being found more trouble than it was worth).

    and
    "Leaving aside the deprivation of liberty, and the living conditions (Mossbank is alleged to have been cold and damp), the regime was intended to be remedial rather than reformatory or inherently punitive: education aimed to teach useful skills, and any labour the children undertook had to be useful and teach useful skills. (A report in the Glasgow Herald of the 1867 AGM of the Glasgow Industrial & Reformatory School Association says that the boys were taught shoemaking, tailoring, or paper bag making). Consequently an industrial school would give a better start in life than a poorhouse school, and there were mutterings about this: I now find in the Glasgow Herald 31 Jan 1872 an account of a meeting of a deputation seeking expansion of the Industrial Schools in London with Mr Bruce (the then Home Secretary) who said that about half the children admitted in the previous year should not have been, and there was nothing more demoralising for the poor than to see their neighbours’ children allowed to wander the streets neglected and then on those grounds taken in by the School Boards and lodged, clothed, fed and taught almost gratuitously (no mention of misrepresentation of uncontrollability , which various rate/taxpayers alleged; nor does he explicitly mention being on the side of ordinary hard-working families trying to do the best for their kids etc…). "

    Re the mother's death date/ Robert's birth. I don't know why in particular he would not have known when he was born. Possibly he didn't actually have the certificate, but if we go along with the hypothesis that he was part of the family, he would likely have known he was born in July rather than December. When his mother died he was 15 not 16 - he added half a year to his age, where your model might have had him losing half a year. It does look, though, as if he adopted his mother's death date as his birthday. (And what is that you do with Shakespeare??)

    Regarding Roberts in the family for whom he might be named - I'm not aware of any. His mother Jane Campbell's father was John, and her GFs were John Campbell and George Gordon. Her Gordon uncles were almost every conceivable name except Robert, and i don't have note of any Campbell uncles. Possibly Jane was sufficiently at odds with her family when the baby was born (she didn't give birth at home, but went to a house in a different area of Glasgow) that she was NOT naming him for any of them. She might have just liked the name. As you say, it is a fairly common one.

    My brother has actually identified a Robert Campbell who *might* be the father - no relation to Jane, but brother of the wife of the couple who were looking after the boy in 1861. This Robert was born 1809 and was married at time of GGF's birth (which would be good reason for not marrying Jane). Although the investigation was based on the idea that 'if GGF said his father was Robert Campbell, why not believe him?', I guess this man is as likely a candidate as any....
     
  3. emjay

    emjay LostCousins Member

    As far as I am aware, Shakespeare's birth date and death date are the same. My wife's mother was born 13th July and died on 13th July...it does happen.
     
  4. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    It does happen - about 1/365th of the time. However, in the case of Shakespeare nobody knows when he was born - there are no records.
     
  5. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I didn't mean to suggest that Robert is a common forename - it isn't by comparison with names like John, James, or William. However it does occur twice as frequently in Scotland in England.
     
  6. Liberty

    Liberty LostCousins Megastar


    My tree is lousy with Roberts! Apart from one in every generation from this GGF (and possibly his father), my Norfolk family has lots. I mentally count through the generations as 'Robert who married Elizabeth', his son 'Robert who married Martha' then 'Robert who married Rebecca'.....
     

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