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The Morris men and women of Shropshire

Discussion in 'Comments on the latest newsletter' started by peter, May 9, 2023.

  1. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Can you help Gaye with any of the questions she poses in the May newsletter?

    Posting your suggestions and contributions here will enable others to build on your discoveries and benefit from your insight and experience.
  2. Katie Bee

    Katie Bee LostCousins Member

    I haven't received my newsletter email, yet. I can see the newsletter on the Lost Cousins site.
    How long do they usually take to arrive? I have checked my SPAM and it is not there.
  3. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    It takes about 5 hours to send them out. Members who haven't logged in for many years may have to wait longer.

    Yours should arrive in the next 30 minutes - according to my records it's about 3 months since you last logged in.
  4. Katie Bee

    Katie Bee LostCousins Member

    Thanks Peter it has just arrived.
  5. Margaret

    Margaret LostCousins Star

    There is a place called Kenton in Devon - Kenton is a village and civil parish located near Exeter, the county town of Devon, England. It has one restaurant, a hairdresser, a primary school, a mediaeval church and is near Powderham Castle. The centre of the village was rebuilt in brick immediately after a fire on 16 April 1856 which destroyed 24 dwellings. Wikipedia
    I haven’t yet found a baptism in Kenton for Sarah Hayden (plus similar sounding surnames, but will keep looking.
  6. Margaret

    Margaret LostCousins Star

    Courtesy of FindMyPast.co.uk - although may not be relevant
    Jane Haydon born 13 Feb 1801 bap 8 Mar 1801 at Kenton to John & Jane
    Sarah Harden born 4 Jun 1799 bap 16 Jun 1799 at Ottery St Mary (17 miles from Kenton) to James & Elizabeth
    Sarah Hayman bap 11 Oct 1801 at Whimple (16 miles from Kenton) to Henry & Mary

    Other than the above, I looked through Kenton All Saints baptisms & burials 1787-1813 and interestingly found a baptism in 1789 which may be food for thought
    Feb 4 Sarah Hayton dr of Will. Alward Ash & Sarah his wife

    familysearch.org also have baptisms for Sarah Haydon in the early 1800s around the Exeter area, such as Tiverton, Cheriton Bishop, Crediton

    not sure if all this helps or hinders ‍
  7. KateR

    KateR New Member

    I would like to help with this but first I would like to know how they know for sure that their John Morris of Norbury is the one who was baptised at Ellesmere and the one who got married at Highley. None of those places are particularly close to each other. If it comes from the handwritten records which were passed down to them, are those from something like a family Bible, or from a previous researcher in the family? My Granny passed on her research of one of our family lines to me but sadly it turned out to be all wrong.
  8. Joy52

    Joy52 New Member

    Further to Margaret's comment above, there is a baptism at Chudleigh, 8 miles from Kenton, of Sally Hydon born 12 july 1804, baptised 29 August to Edward and Sarah - there seem to be several Hydons at Kenton in later years, but no obvious marriages in devon, and the death of a Sarah Hydon in 1848 registered Newton Abbot was for someone in their 80s.(possibly her mother?) https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=BMD/D/1848/4/AZ/000347/147&expand=true
  9. Robert1950

    Robert1950 New Member

    As I live locally, I have been looking for the properties. Upper Bent Farm is I believe at what3words location, upgrading.amuses.educates
    It doesn't appear to be named on modern maps but I found an historic listed building notification at: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1054612?section=official-list-entry
    The Crown Inn at Wentnor is still a thriving pub and has its own website. I will happily visit and report on the ale!
    The More Arms Inn at More isn't marked on any maps I have looked at. Pubs and inns often indicated by the legend, PH. More looks to be a small hamlet and I will go and scout around. It's possible that it was just an ale house in someone's front room. There used to be plenty of them around. Clun, where I live, reputedly had 17 pubs and ale houses at one time for a population of less than 1000 people, even in its heyday from 15th -19th century when it was the centre of the sheep trade between England & Wales. Current population 550 and as such is the smallest town in Shropshire!
    I agree with someone above about Keinton being most likely Kenton nr. Exeter. It is only 13 miles distant to Tedburn St. Mary. My phone is being repaired at present, when it's returned I'll go out and take some photos for you.
    There are a number of Morris's in the area, who may well be your cousins. Have you traced the Morris line forward?
  10. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    The surname of the Elizabeth baptised in Ellesmere in 1675 is France, not Francis. Francis as a forename can be seen lower down the page for comparison.
  11. Spedders

    Spedders Genealogy in the Sunshine 2015

    One issue to remember from old census returns is that the people who went around the houses taking the returns were local, and the people giving their oral returns were also local, and both talked in the local dialect. I have found several instances where a name in the census makes no sense until you speak it in the local dialect. That is particular for the Tyne Wear Tees area, but also for areas of East London.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    When looking at families in the 17th and 18th centuries, particularly with a common surname like Morris (and it's many variant spellings) it can be a nigh on impossible task using parish register information only. As KateR points out in #7, the places mentioned are not particularly close to each other, and there are too many possibilities to home in on any one particular baptism, marriage or burial without some kind of corroborating evidence.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    Sorry to be posting in dribs and drabs, but is there a reason why the baptism of a John Morris in Norbury in 1678/9 was discounted?
  14. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Gayle is in Australia, so is unlikely to be in a position to answer questions until late tonight (London time).
  15. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    That's OK, I gathered that, but by then I shall (hopefully) be fast asleep so not in a position to ask!
  16. DeeD

    DeeD New Member

    Gayle wrote: "There is no such place as Keinton, nor any record of a birth for a Sarah Haydon in Devon, though I did find a Sally Haydon who was baptised at Tedburn St Mary in 1797. Sally is a pet form of Sarah, and Sarah Morris was shown as aged 60 when she died on 31/10/1857, which fits with a 1797 baptism."

    The GENUKI page for Tedburn St Mary has a transcript for the 1821 Census. The household for Blackdown records a bonded servant called Sarah Haydon. She is in the right age range for a birth c1797 and there are no other likely candidates within Tedburn parish so it is possible that Sally and Sarah are the same person. She was also the only person by the name of Haydon.
    George Hawkins 50-60 Yeoman
    Ann Wife 40-50
    Ann Daughter 5-10
    George Son Under 5
    John Son Under 5
    Josiah Luscombe 30-40 Weekly Servant B
    Sarah Haydon 20-30 Yearly Servant B

    The baptism for Sally Haydon was on 30 April 1797 and she was the daughter of William and Elizabeth Haydon.

    A search for a marriage of a William Haydon and an Elizabeth was not found within Tedburn St Mary but within a 5 mile radius there was an interesting one between a William Headon (which could sound like Heydon/Haydon in a regional dialect) and Elizabeth Lendon, at Colebrooke, on 28 May 1786. William was from Tedburn St Mary and Elizabeth was of Colebrooke.

    Both Colebrooke and Tedburn St Mary are near Crediton, which is also called Kirton or Kerton. So is this actually referring to Keinton?

    There are baptisms on Find My Past for children of a William and Elizabeth Haydon at Crediton - John 1789, Ann 1791, Ann 1792, and Samuel 1794. Also Mary in 1801 at Tedburn St Mary.
  17. Catharine

    Catharine Member

    Has anyone else noticed that John Morris who married at Highley in 1702 and died in Norbury in 1731 is born Ellesmere according to Gayle but there is a baptism at Norbury
    John Morris 3 Feb 1678 to Thomas and Elinor Morris
    Thomas married Elinor Phipps at Wentnor 20 Dec 1674 .She seems to have been baptised at Norbury 4.4.1647 d of Richard Phipps.
    This was a second marriage for Thomas ,his first wife Alice buried 4.5.1672 with perhaps her daughter Alice the younger 29.4.1672
    There are Wills at Hereford John Morris 1731 to an Alice Morris (Elizabeth died 1725 so perhaps a second wife)
    Thomas Morris 1718 to a Rebecca estate £19(Rebecca was his daughter
    Elinor Morris was buried 25 July 1706 so that would make sense
    Richard Phipps of Norbury 1733 to Alice £9

    Children for Thomas and Alice at Norbury Ann 2.3.1650 ,Mary 23.4.1653 ,Margaret 13.1.1657-8.10.1675 ,Rebecca 31.8.1659,Benjamin 28 Jan 1667 ,Thomas 17.5.1670
    There is a marriage of a Thomas Morris to Alice Bowen 8.6.1641 but I think there may be two Thomas and Alice Morrises

    Can anyone see a burial or another reason to discount the one in Norbury for the one in Ellesmere?
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
  18. Catharine

    Catharine Member

  19. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    Yes, see my post #13 above.
  20. GayleA

    GayleA LostCousins Member

    Thank you Margaret for the details about Kenton and for your careful research on Sarah Haydon. It is all very helpful.

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