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Not so old phonebooks at Ancestry

Discussion in 'Comments on the latest newsletter' started by At home in NZ, Apr 16, 2022.

  1. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ Guest

    Thanks for drawing attention to this collection, for the years 2001 and 2003. Why doesn't it have phone numbers?
     
    At home in NZ, Apr 16, 2022
    #1
  2. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    Presumably because Ancestry decided to omit these from their transcripts. The original books will have the phone numbers - that's what they were for.
     
    Pauline, Apr 16, 2022
    #2
  3. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ Guest

    I know that but Ancestry seems to have ignored it. Can't say I'm impressed, why call it a collection of phone books if in fact it is just a collection of addresses??
     
    At home in NZ, Apr 16, 2022
    #3
  4. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    The title of the new record set is:

    UK, Phone Book Indexes, 2001 and 2003

    As you can see from the Source they've licensed the indexes from a Belgian company - it may they don't have the numbers either, but it's also possible that GDPR prevents them being published online.
     
    peter, Apr 17, 2022
    #4
  5. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ Guest

    What does that stand for? it would have been helpful to include the full wording.
     
    At home in NZ, Apr 18, 2022
    #5
  6. Bryman

    Bryman LostCousins Megastar

    General Data Protection Regulation, ie publication of phone numbers may be a breach of privacy as defined by the EU about a year ago. However I doubt that would be true as the purpose of a phone directory is to make phone numbers public! Online directories already exist for searches to be made based on the name of phone users but it might be a problem if reverse searches can be performed based on phone numbers to determine the corresponding names of users.
     
    Bryman, Apr 18, 2022
    #6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    GDPR is indeed a EU regulation, but it came into force in the UK in 2018.
    I think you're forgetting how much more important privacy has become over the past 20 years - back then people wouldn't have expected their phone number to be published online. People can choose to go ex-directory, but they can't do it retrospectively.

    My guess is that Ancestry are able to publish names and addresses from those years because it's effectively a subset of the Electoral Register (which is already online at multiple sites, including Findmypast).
     
    peter, Apr 19, 2022
    #7
  8. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ Guest

    Surely back then anybody in the whole of GB could find a printed directory and look up any number they wished to? Or, make a directory enquiry by phone?
    In which case the numbers were far from private. Putting the same sets of numbers online doesn't make them any more public than they were.

    I am assuming online listings nowadays have taken the place of printed directories still with the ability to be ex directory?

    In NZ we have printed phone books as well as online listings. When we sign up for a land line we are asked if we want to be ex directory and pay a fee for the privilege.
     
    At home in NZ, Apr 20, 2022
    #8
  9. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    You might want to consult a lawyer - or read up on data protection legislation. Just because something is available, in theory, to those who know where to look and take the time and trouble to do so, doesn't mean anyone can take the same information and broadcast it online.

    If this was the case there would be no point someone going ex-directory unless they also changed their phone number, or removing their name from the published electoral register unless they also moved home.
     
    peter, Apr 20, 2022
    #9
  10. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    There are plenty of people who have opted out of the public register relatively recently and who have not since moved, so their addresses are still available at FMP. If that is allowed, then why not phone numbers?
     
    Pauline, Apr 20, 2022
    #10
  11. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    For a start, if they've opted out you can't know whether they have moved or not - some will have done, some won't, but you can't be sure which is which.

    Secondly, scammers and unscrupulous salespeople are much more likely to target individuals over the phone (or the Internet) than through the post. Even if people have moved from the address they were at in 2001/2003 they might have taken their phone number with them - and if they didn't the new occupants might have inherited it. Either of these provides an opportunity for scammers.

    The full electoral register is still available, it's simply much harder to access than if it was online. Similarly when the GRO stopped selling their BMD indexes c2008 they were still available on microfilm at certain libraries, but it made them more difficult to access.

    Data protection isn't black and white - there are many shades of grey. One of the key roles of the Information Commissioner's Office is to provide advice and guidance - I've contacted them many times over the years.
     
    peter, Apr 20, 2022
    #11
  12. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ Guest

    I found this in the website of the NZ Privacy Commissioner:
    Because the GDPR is European rather than New Zealand law, the New Zealand Privacy Commissioner does not have any legal power or responsibilities to advise NZ companies of their obligations under a European data protection law, to investigate breaches of the GDPR or to enforce GDPR requirements.

    Take a look at the NZ Privacy Act 2020 and the Privacy Principles if you wish.
     
    At home in NZ, Apr 21, 2022
    #12
  13. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks - it looks very similar to the situation in the UK. Principles 3 and 9 would be particularly relevant in this case.
     
    peter, Apr 21, 2022
    #13

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