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Latin Baptisms Translation help needed please

Discussion in 'General Genealogical Queries' started by deedna17, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. deedna17

    deedna17 LostCousins Member

    I have found possible baptisms for my ancestors in the RC Holy Trinity Cathedral, Waterford City in 1856, but there are several unusual notes and wordings that I can't quite decypher.
    Also, there only appears to be one sponsor - what could be the likely reasons for this?
    Attached is the image of the register - the entries are the last 2 on February 15th.
    Many thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ LostCousins Star

    The final entry looks very much like an illegitimate child because there is only one parent name.
    Unfortunately I cannot read the words that slope up between the names.
    This page in the Irish Genealogy Toolkit might help.
     
  3. Heather

    Heather LostCousins Member

    Hi Deedna17, it is quite hard to read, after the children's names I think it reads " sub conditiono" which may mean " under condition" or "under arrangement". On a slope after first child it could be "4th anno statis" and after second child "1 **** anno statis", maybe their ages? as "anno" is year. After father's name Robert Mitchel on a slope could be "militia" maybe he was a soldier? As for the rest of it I cannot find anything similar in my dictionary, sorry.
     
  4. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Superstar

    I think it may be 'sub conditione' meaning these were conditional baptisms - that is, where the child may already have been baptised but no one knows for sure.
    I think is probably 'etatis' (otherwise aetatis) meaning 'of age', so the first one is in her 4th year of age and the other in her 1st year.

    I can't quite work out what the word is between the two parents' names, and a larger/clearer image might help with this. I agree with Heather about the father being a soldier, although being pedantic I think it says 'militis'. The bit in the parent space for the second child is, I think, 'supradictorum parentum' - of the aforesaid parents.
     
  5. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Superstar

    I see that someone - not sure if it is you - posted this same query on RootsChat yesterday evening, with a clearer image, and that there has been answer there as to what the unclear word is and what it means.

    Otherwise, the answers given there are the same as had already been given here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  6. deedna17

    deedna17 LostCousins Member

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I am now happy with the Latin translations meaning that the first child is Lucy Mitchell aged 4 and already baptised - parents Robert Mitchell (soldier & non-catholic) and Mary Kearns. The second child Mary Mitchell aged 1 and previously baptised, with the above mentioned parents.

    Still not sure why only one sponsor for each though which seems to be in the 2nd sponsor column? Could it be because the father wasn't present, as he could have been away in the Crimea at that time Feb 1856?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  7. At home in NZ

    At home in NZ LostCousins Star

    Take a look at Catholic Telegraph here, explains why in the second paragraph of the answer.
     
  8. AndyK

    AndyK New Member

    This is exactly right. The Roman Catholic church was very clear that if it is even possible that a person has already been baptised, only a conditional rite may be performed as it is not possible to baptise someone twice. The wording of the rite was to the effect that 'I baptise you if you haven't already been baptised.' In Ireland it was quite common for the conditional rite to be used where the child's parents were from different traditions. I have found several conditional baptism entries with the note 'Pater Protestans est' the father is a protestant.
     

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