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DNA-Y37 or Y111

Discussion in 'DNA Questions and Answers' started by PeterM, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. PeterM

    PeterM LostCousins Member

    I took a DNA-Y37 test because I couldn't confirm the birth of my Great Grandfather. I wasn't expecting too much from the results but I got 20 matches. None of them were my family name but about a third of the results were to the family name 'Mobley'. These were at a distance of 2-3. This name does not appear in my family tree. I noted that from the 20 matches, 7 were to people that had already tested at level Y111. I tested with MYFAMILYTREE. With the recent reduction in prices I decided to test at Y111 level. I have 6 matches. They are the same as I had found on theY37 test that had already tested at Y111. Therefore I found nothing from the upgrade. Have other people had the same experience? At Y111 level the matches to the 'Mobley' family are between 6-10 so the match is at least 12 generations ago.
     
    PeterM, Dec 6, 2019
    #1
  2. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Upgrading the number of markers improves the resolution. However in this case you probably haven't learnt anything new, since a genetic distance of 2-3 at 37 markers is roughly equivalent to a genetic distance of 6-9 at 111 markers.

    (I'm simplifying slightly - in reality markers don't mutate at the same rate.)

    The genetic distances you quote don't mean that the match is at 12 generations ago, at least not according to FamilyTreeDNA. It might be the average, but it certainly isn't the minimum. The match might be as few as 5 or 6 generations back. For example, here's what FTDNA show me for a genetic distance of 7 at 111 markers:

    upload_2019-12-6_17-49-9.png
     
    peter, Dec 6, 2019
    #2
  3. PeterM

    PeterM LostCousins Member

    Yes, the link could be closer but, all the matches to the family ' Mobley' on both MyFamilyTree and Ancestry are to US families. Only a few have managed to research their families back to the UK in around 1700. I have been unable to find any 'Mobley' family (or similar) to anywhere near my Great Grandmother. The closest is opposite sides of London. So, my search continues. Thanks for your reply, It sounds as though my results are a little unusual.
     
    PeterM, Dec 6, 2019
    #3
  4. Tim

    Tim Megastar and Moderator Staff Member

    I think your results match mine PeterM. The majority of my Y111 matches are with people with the surname Johnson, of which I have currently none in my ancestors.
     
    Tim, Dec 6, 2019
    #4
  5. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    What makes you say that - what were you expecting?

    Or is this more about what you were hoping for?
     
    peter, Dec 6, 2019
    #5
  6. PeterM

    PeterM LostCousins Member

    I am not sure what I was expecting. I suppose I was hoping for a bit more clarification. But I got no more than I already had with the matches on the Y67 test that had already tested to Y111. If other people get similar results then what is the purpose of upgrading. Everyone could take a test at Y67 and then just extract those had already tested to Y111. This may be simplifying things and this would not be possible if others had not already tested at the higher level. Although I am looking for matches to my Great Grandfather, the results I have suggest the match is to my 6X or 7X Grandfather. This may just mean that no 'Mobley' has tested in this country to give me a match to my Grandfather or the match could be much further back. The matches to the US families appear to be to a Lord Mobberley from Cheshire. My family at this time were, I believe, holding high positions at Hampton Court Palace. They come, it is thought, from Derbyshire. Not too far away. The results I have got are disappointing at present but hopefully may in time prove to be more useful.
     
    PeterM, Dec 7, 2019
    #6
  7. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    As I said before, the aim of upgrading is to get better resolution.

    For example, at 12 markets I have only match, with DC at a genetic distance of 1. At 25 markets DC ios still at a distance of 1, but I also have three matches with a genetic distance of 2 - DP, GC, and SC. On the face of it the latter three are equally close, and I would spend an equal amount of time researching to my connections with them. In practice I'd probably spend more time researching SC, because his surname is the same as mine.

    At 37 markers DC and GC are still at 1 and 2 respectively, but DP has disappeared altogether (although he tested 67 markers) and SC now has a genetic distance of 4. This means that I should be focusing on DC and GC (neither of whom has the surname Calver, by the way, though one is quite close). I've also got 3 new matches at a genetic distance of 4.

    The problem with Y-DNA is that so few people have tested. Roughly speaking about 1 in 250 of the relevant male population has tested compared to 1 in 20 who have taken autosomal DNA tests. But that's not a realistic comparison because you can only get Y-DNA matches with males who share your direct paternal line, which is only one line out hundreds, thousands, millions, or billions (depending how many generations back).

    How far do you have to go back on your direct male line for there to be 250 living males who share that line? If you take the very optimistic view that every male had 2 sons it would take 16 generations, which takes you at least as back to the start of parish registers in 1538, and probably further. Go back another 7 or 8 generations and now you're back before surnames came into common use in England.

    So the chances of getting a close match, or any useful match, is pretty small - and that's why in many cases it's better to take the Ancestry test.
     
    peter, Dec 7, 2019
    #7
  8. PeterM

    PeterM LostCousins Member

    Thanks Peter. I think I understand that. In answer to my initial question - it helps some people to upgrade.
    I think I need to concentrate on the 'Mobley' family as this name appears about 50% of the time at all marker levels (except 12 markers where there is only 2). None of the match names on Y-DNA have any connection. At 12 markers I have over 400 matches. Nearly all the matches to 'Mobley' on Ancestry and FTDNA are to North Carolina, with the few that have researched back to the UK are all to Cheshire.
     
    PeterM, Dec 8, 2019
    #8
  9. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think you should spend any time on your Y-DNA results - the matches are so distant that you're unlikely to learn anything useful no matter how long you spend pondering them. What you should do, however, is look at your Ancestry (atDNA) matches, focusing on the ones who have the Mobley surname in their tree. And keep the Mobley surname in mind when you're doing your research.

    It's quite likely that someone who shares one of your direct paternal ancestors went to America and that his descendants are called Mobley. But at this stage there is no evidence that you also have an ancestor called Mobley. You might, but it could simply be a red herring.
     
    peter, Dec 8, 2019
    #9

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