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Dance teacher mystery

Discussion in 'Comments on the latest newsletter' started by Helen7, Apr 18, 2024.

  1. Helen7

    Helen7 LostCousins Superstar

    I read with great interest the 'detective' story about the life of Angela Redgrave who died recently aged 106, the difficulties in tracing her origins not being helped by untruths in the written records. Thanks for relating this story - it made my day.

    I noticed that in the 1921 census for the family, in the right hand column (ages of all living children under 16) the father had (I assume) correctly entered the ages of his children as : Under one, 2, 3, 4 and 8 years, and then the enumerator had altered this in green ink to match the ages given against each child. I wonder how often this sort of discrepancy occurred in the 1921 census? Has anyone come across anything similar, I wonder.
    • Great question Great question x 1
  2. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    It's hard to know when they were actually born, since only the youngest was registered in England & Wales. But if we take Kenneth as an example, his birthdate is shown in the 1939 Register as 15/4/1920, which would make him 1 year-old at the time of the census - and there is nothing in that column either before or after the enumerator has done his bit (though since the alterations are in green, I don't think it would have been the enumerator, but one of the clerks).

    I suspect there are similar discrepancies in other 1921 schedules since it's a jolly confusing form! But I don't recall noting any - probably because I haven't looked sufficiently closely.
  3. JimP

    JimP LostCousins Member

    As to some of the children having been born in Canada:

    The Rev. Mr. Redgrave's biography in Crockford's contains a significant gap, from 1913 to 1920 (for obvious reasons). That he was eventually granted a PTO in 1923 is somewhat shocking by modern sensibilities, as such an offense today would usually result in permanent removal from the ministry. That he was employed as a schoolmaster before 1921 is also concerning, although it does seem that Hannah was not a minor. Traveling to Canada might have been a way for him to continue clerical employment without revealing too much of his past.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2024
  4. jorghes

    jorghes LostCousins Superstar

    Being away from people that knew him would definitely allow him to hide the impropriety that he had been embroiled in. It would have provided distance and a certain amount of "cover" for him and his children.

    I always thought that my 2x great grandfather moved from South Australia to Victoria to better hide the fact that he wasn't actually married to the woman who he was presenting as his wife... (needless to say when they did get married 26 or so years after they got together it was back in South Australia, not Victoria...). One of his descendants of his second wife firmly believes that her ancestor was legitimate... but the records don't back that up (plus he and his partner kept changing the date of their marriage on their children's birth registers - it was as if they kept forgetting what date they'd put in last time...)
  5. JimP

    JimP LostCousins Member

    I have some of the same in my own tree. My great-grandmother emigrated from Wales to the US, tagging along with her older sister and her husband. At least, that's how they were listed on the ship's passenger list. ("Mr & Mrs C.C. Phillips and Mary Beynon, sister to Mrs. Phillips"). I was searching for years, and could not find the sister's marriage, but I did find a GRO entry for C.C. Phillips, marrying a different woman about 2 years before the voyage to the US, and I found them in the 1901 Census. Then I found his probate record (he died in the US just 2 years after immigrating, in a workplace accident), and his wife in Wales sought administration of his estate. Apparently "Mrs Phillips" never disclosed the deceit; I had contact a few years ago with a descendant from her "second" marriage who confirmed for me details of C.C.'s death but had no idea he left a wife and child behind in Wales.
  6. cfbandit

    cfbandit LostCousins Member

    I posted Peter's newsletter to the rabbit hole chat on Ravelry and all of us greatly enjoyed it. Its nice to know the experts find their own rabbit holes too :)

    I also have seen the green text here and there on the 1921 registers, but it never seemed like it was a large enough correction like on the Redgrave one!
  7. MartinC

    MartinC New Member

    Rev Redgrave would appear to have been living in England from early 1919 under a pseudonym according to three articles in the newspaper "Truth" for 23 June, 7 July and 15 September 1920.

    From 7 July 1920: "Further information which has reached me concerning the Rev. H. H. Redgrave, Kent Cottage, Prince's Road, Buckhurst Hill, confirms me in the opinion I have already expressed that this gentleman is not a fit object for charity. He came to his present address about eighteen months ago under the name of Capt. H. Woodward ..."

    Then this might be Kenneth's birth registration.
    Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
    Woodward Kenneth Woodward Epping 4a 1070
  8. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    Well spotted - the birth register entry confirms your hypothesis (and the birth date matches the 1939 Register). So at least one of the children wan't born in Quebec as claimed in the 1921 Census.


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