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Is anyone planning to visit the National Archives in the near future?

Discussion in 'General Genealogical Queries' started by peter, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    One of my possible ancestors made a will - they were mostly too poor. Not only that, their will is in the Index to the Death Duties Register at Findmypast (IR27). The entry suggests that it's a PCC will, but it doesn't show up in a search of PCC wills at Ancestry or The Genealogist - so I'm hoping there is an abstract in IR26.

    If anyone is planning a visit to Kew in the near future I'll happily pay for your time and expenses.
     
    peter, Oct 30, 2020
    #1
  2. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    At the risk of asking a silly question, have you checked the TNA index as well? And it may be worth also checking in PROB 10 there for an original will.
     
    Pauline, Oct 31, 2020
    #2
  3. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I can't find anything in Discovery. But if you want to have a go this is the entry from the Death Duties index:

    Record set Index To Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
    First name(s) James
    Last name Wheatley
    Death year 1807
    County London
    Court Canterbury Prerogative Court
    Residence ST MARY AT HILL
    National Archives reference IR27/19
     
    peter, Oct 31, 2020
    #3
  4. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    As far as I can work out from TNA, IR27/19 relates to PCC administrations which would be why this is not showing up in the wills indexes.
     
    Pauline, Oct 31, 2020
    #4
  5. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    You're right - I was misled by the word 'will' which appears against some of the entries. Ironically in this case an administration could be more useful than a will, since IR26 should list all of the family members entitled to participate, which will presumably include all the surviving children (his wife predeceased him).
     
    peter, Oct 31, 2020
    #5
  6. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    It's certainly worth looking at the entry (I know I would want to) but it can be a bit of a gamble, and what information it contains will depend on how much money and how many children he had. I've had some immensely enlightening entries from the death duty registers and others which contain no useful information at all.
     
    Pauline, Oct 31, 2020
    #6
  7. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    According to the TNA book on wills "The administration entries normally list all of the family members entitled to be included in the distribution of the estate." So definitely hopeful!
     
    peter, Oct 31, 2020
    #7
  8. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    I can see that it says that in the book but I have nevertheless had DDR entries relating to administrations - and to wills - which don't show any of the beneficiaries because no tax was due. But fingers crossed this entry will be one of the really useful ones!
     
    Pauline, Oct 31, 2020
    #8
  9. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    It might depend when the ancestor died - prior to 1805 there was no inheritance tax on bequests to children. But you're right, if no tax was payable there will may be no useful information in IR26. The objective in this case is to prove that my ancestor Samuel Wheatley was actually William Samuel Wheatley, the son of James baptised 1781. There's some circumstantial evidence that he was - one of his grandsons (my great-great grandfather) was christened William Samuel, but was shown on the censuses as either William or Samuel.
     
    peter, Oct 31, 2020
    #9
  10. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    As I said above, in your situation I would definitely want to get a copy of this DDR entry even though there is a chance it may not provide any useful information.

    To give a very rough idea of the scope of DDR entries relating to admons, I have copies of 7 of these dated 1804, 1805, 1814 (x2), 1826, 1833 and 1848. Of these, 4 were PCC admons and duty was payable on 4 of them (not the same 4). All include the name(s) of the administrator(s), but only one of the entries (1814) includes a list of the entitled beneficiaries while the others simply have "widow" and "children" (abbreviated). The one that does list some names just gives initials and surnames, and for the 3 daughters (I think!) it just gives one name and "+ two others", while the widow and two sons are listed individually.

    Obviously this is a very small sample, but looking at other entries on the same copies, not many give names of beneficiaries.
     
    Pauline, Nov 1, 2020
    #10
  11. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    So back to my original question - is anyone planning a trip to Kew in the near future?
     
    peter, Nov 1, 2020
    #11
  12. Heather

    Heather LostCousins Member

    Peter, will Kew still be open if the UK is back in lockdown from Thursday?
     
    Heather, Nov 2, 2020
    #12
  13. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    I doubt it. But perhaps someone will be visiting before then - there are thousands of LostCousins members who live within 10 miles of the National Archives.
     
    peter, Nov 2, 2020
    #13
  14. Heather

    Heather LostCousins Member

    Good luck Peter, I hope that someone can help you.
     
    Heather, Nov 3, 2020
    #14
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
  15. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    A year later and I've just happened across this thread again, so I'm wondering - were you eventually able to obtain a copy of this DDR entry, Peter, and if so, did it help you make progress with your Wheatley family?
     
    Pauline, Nov 7, 2021
    #15
  16. peter

    peter Administrator Staff Member

    No progress on the Wheatley line as yet - but I've been busy making discoveries in other parts of my tree. That's the good thing about having so many 'brick walls' - there are always one or two with tiny cracks through which a ray of light can be seen!
     
    peter, Nov 9, 2021
    #16
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
  17. Pauline

    Pauline LostCousins Megastar

    That's one way of looking at it. I've sometimes had success with brick walls when I've given up and started looking at another line instead, although that probably happened more in pre-internet days when most things could only be found by trawling through records.
     
    Pauline, Nov 9, 2021
    #17

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