Asylum records

My gg grandmother gave birth to her 11th child in 1857 in Westminster,(maiden name shown in records) her husband married for a second time in 1858. Have not been able to find a death or burial record despite many years of searching. I am wondering if she may have been admitted to an Asylum I have been unable to find her on census records I believe some Asylum records are by initials only. Any advice on how to proceed would be very much appreciated I live in Australia so not able to access records in person. Hetta

 

Thanks for reply, James was shown as a widower at the time of his second marriage. My gg grandmother was Maria Ann Grounsell nee Pledger, son Frederick was born 1857 James was married to Mary Ann Brown a widow in 1858. Unfortunately following the Grounsell name through the years and census the spelling changed markedly. I have exhausted all avenues that I can think of re death records which is why I was wondering if she saw out her years in an Asylum she was born in 1821, husband James was a Tailor born 1815 in Mid Lavant, Sussex. Sorry for tardy reply had not checked spam. Hetta

 

Hi Hetta, what a mystery! I have had a search for Maria Ann's death but could not find her, tried every spelling with and without wild cards but still nothing, sorry.

 

Thanks Heather, This is my brick wall, every few months I come back to it and go over everything again and again hoping I missed the obvious so far nothing. Today I finally found some Asylum records with initials M A G but no death or burial records. Hetta

 

One reason why people seemingly disappear can be that they start using a different surname. One of my gg grandmothers vanished some time after the 1871 census and the most likely scenario (since she'd done it before) is that she moved in with a new man and started using his surname. Her death was probably registered under a different surname too, which is why I've never found it.

 

Thank you Peter and Pauline. Somehow I really need to find a death certificate. I have followed Maria and James back through the generations the lack of the record does not alter my family tree. I have been following various family branches since 1981 I am now at the stage of driving my self slightly mad and frustrated over gaps. Hetta

 

Hetta, just a thought, have you tried following all her children who are not with their father and stepmother in the census records? She may turn up there and have been mistranscribed, a long shot I know but funnier things have happened.

 

Wow - lots of food for thought. Frederick was born 17th August 1857, Reg St Giles, Bapt. 20 September 1857 St. Anne Soho. Is there any way the unknown deaths from Free BMD can be crossmatched with the GRO records? Maria's age if she died in 1857 would have been 36. Hetta

 

The baptism shows Frederick as son of James and Mary Ann. There is obviously a potential for confusion between Maria and Mary, but this could indicate that your gg grandmother was out of the picture sooner than you think, and that Frederick was not her son but Mary Ann’s.

Frederick’s birth may have been registered as if he was Maria’s son to make him appear legitimate. I have an example of this in my own family so I know it happened - a child registered as daughter of the father’s first wife and baptised as daughter of his second wife to be (as if already married).

 

Have applied for certificate will be back intouch asap, in the meanwhile I will press on with your suggestions. We have a weekend of football finals here so I will be firmly attached to my computer!!. Hetta. Really appreciate all the help.

 

Copy certificate arrived, don't know that it advances my cause. Frederick was born on the 17th August 1857, copies of Endell Street Lying In Hospital and GRO birth record seem to agree that Maria Ann Grounsell wife of James Grounsell, Tailor was the mother. GRO record has name and maiden name as Maria Ann Grounsell formerly Pledger, signature of informant just M A Grounsell.
I do have a copy of 1861 census for Grove Hall Lunatic Asylum with a patient M.A.G. who is the wife of a Tailor with an age of 43 could this be my Maria Ann? still unable to find a death. Maria's father died of Paralysis perhaps Maria had late onset Syphilis, I wonder if this could be a reason for the marriage of James to Mary Ann Brown and claiming he was a Widower.
I think the most likely outcome is that I will leave the death field blank on my tree. Thank you, Humpty

 

Asylum record was a census record Grove Hall Lunatic Asylum, Bow St Mary, Middlesex, I believe that it was a private asylum no records have survived. The birth was registered 29th August and signed M A Grounsell, Mother, 13 Little Dean Street, Soho, I believe that this may have been false as the Lying-in Hospital record states that discharge was 4 September (perhaps the baby was discharged and Maria died) the column is headed Discharge or Died still that does not explain the lack of a death certificate.

Yes, the place of birth on the census fits although scant - London, Middlesex, Maria was baptised 14 May 1821 Marylebone. The census says Patient, married, wife of a Tailor, born London Middlesex, age appears to be 40/43. Not able to find her on further census. Humpty

 

I have a doubt about the signing on 29th August by M A Grounsell if Maria was still in hospital - who signed? The certificate shows Maria Ann Grounsell formerly Pledger as the mother but the signature is just M A Grounsell. Perhaps Maria was discharged and the baby was kept until 4th September or the date of discharge was incorrect or the mothers were able to register the birth whilst in hospital?

I have checked Lunacy Patients at Ancestry also the LMA and the TNA and anything else I could locate.

As an aside James's daughters Emily b1850 (grousell) and Ellen Ann b1851 (gronsell) have not been able to locate their deaths or burials, neither was around for the 1861 census it must be something about the name Grounsell.!! Humpty